which president would you rather sleep with?

[Guitar_clock]

Ast and Rainboo, shake hands and make up.

Deadymcsexhair, don't be afraid by all the confusion, we welcome you wholeheartedly

anyways its just her opinion.

seriously rob if she says she thinks vegans are ridiculous, then are they?
...to her sure, to you no..so what does it matter what soemone else ont eh internet says. calm the fuck down.

but then again sometimes i forget that we're all about getting up in peoples faces for them stating their opinions here

I wished to change it by offering an opinion of my own I feel is more logical than hers. Opinions based upon logic < Opinions¿ Gosh I'm confused.

Besides, vegetarianism isn't an ethical choice. It's a dietary one. They're not abstaining from animals because it involves animals dying. They're not eating them because they find some kind of health reason to do so.

What¿ No, no, no, not at all... people are vegetarians for differing and/or multiple reasons! HelloOOoo!

peta's fucked up

World's fucked up

Vegetarians aren't supposed to wear leather either, since the animal still dies for the person to have it.

....no im pretty sure vegitarians are only restricted in diet..

How can that philosophy possibly work?
"Oh I'm against killing animals for the unnecessary luxury of humans, with the exception of making nice leather boots and couches. Don't want my style to suffer."
Enter vegetarian opinions?

Leather is a biproduct. At the end of the day, I gotta keep my pants up. There's a difference between using animals for a good utility and using animals for the illusion of a good utility (it tastes good, it must BE good!)

[Azgarth]

it tastes good, gives good nutrition, is easier to obtain than years of farming.

how is that less utulity than say a leather belt? which you can make from pretty much anything if you'd want to?

[ƒrosty]

A good steak will give a laborer the energy to fashion a belt.

[Guitar_clock]

it tastes good, gives good nutrition, is easier to obtain than years of farming.

You forgot that a cow eats like a cow.

[daemon]

macs are horrible anyway, the price/performance ratio is shit.
if you really want mac os, you can put it on a regular computer, but please do dual boot, because you'll be back to win/your-fave-linux-distro/beOS in a week, if that.

What about Win or Unix on the mac hardware?

[Azgarth]

then you still paid shitloads for almost nothing, win/*nix(i take it you mean nix based variants like linux distros or beOS distros here, not unix since it's not generally used) are fine on their own depending on your purposes, but so is mac os X.
the main point with macs is that the hardware is overpriced for what you pay, and that it's just as easy these days to just install mac os x on other computers.
paying for a mac and then putting windows on it (not counting dual boots) is about the worst option there is.

basically, with mac you pay for three things, brandname, faux style, and the bullshit that made you into a drone.

glock, point being?
i eat like a human, that includes meat, usually cow.

[daemon]

I was just wondering lol.

And yes. We survived off meat for thousands of years. Point being it was natural meat shot up with hormones or preserved in pcp. So go natural meat!

[deadymcsexhead]

i know nothing about computers.
oh lord.

and i as for the vegan/ vegetarian thing...
we're at the top of the food chain, might as well make the most of it while we're there.

because god knows eventually nature is gonna kick our ass up and down this universe.

[Azgarth]

we're PART of nature.
we just got a little out of hand, is all.

[Astica]

@Dead: what me and Frosty were saying is that theres nothing wrong with using quotes and smileys as part of a post, but when thats all the post is its pointless.

[Guitar_clock]

glock, point being?
i eat like a human, that includes meat, usually cow.

You said it beats years of farming. Well¿ How do you think the cows survive, Az¿ Eating air¿

[Azgarth]

no, of course not, but what do you think is easier to maintain? grass of crops?
you only have to make sure the grass grows, after that it's fairly resilient, as are the few plants growing for extra nutrition.
with crops you have to grow em, protect them from a whole lot of things, then harvest em, clean em.

[Guitar_clock]

The cattle diet consists mostly of corn. We need that for ethanol and people food. /sigh ::makes a thread::

[Azgarth]

oh, right, yeah i was being an idiot.
i could now argue the difference of crops intended for cattle vs crops intended for humans, but i'd be fighting al osing battle, you're right.

[daemon]

Cows here eat grass. Lots and lots of grass.

We found a high ass horse once. Got into this dude's pot plants and ate like 4 3' plants.

It didn't like moving.

[Azgarth]

dae, here too, but it's almost always supplemented with corn, of inferior quality, yeah, but still a lot.
basically they sort corn for what's digestible for humans, the rest gets dumped in cattle food, there's other corn added that's specially grown for it because otherwise there wouldn't be enough.
with some (a lot, depending on the country) they add extra chems to 'help' the cow, this is bad for you in the end though, which is why that better cut of meat is indeed better for your health and not just your taste.
i forgot all about the cornfood due to it mostly being imported here not grown.
as a result, we have a shit overload, since it's too expensive to ship.
not good for any country.

[ƒrosty]

Corn isn't good for cows, no matter the quality.

[Azgarth]

nope, but they get it anyway.

[krishh.]

trees are cut for cows to graze. cows are injected with shit loads of growth hormones and eat leftover slop. humans are not at the top of the food chain, a freaking pack of puppies could kill us all. we just happen to have more complex and developed brains. some of us, at least. yes, we've been eating meat for hundreds of years, but it was never an industry. so there.

[Azgarth]

we just happen to have more complex and developed brains.

which is what puts us at the top of our food chain.
really, there's more to it than strength or agility or any such.
ANYTHING that gives benefit counts in life, and what counts for the food chain is who you're preying on and who's a natural predator of you.
humans have no real predator.

what does the industry have to do with it?

not ALL cows get that, just try to get pieces of meat from animals that didn't get growth hormones. they're illegal in holland, i think.

[krishh.]

we just happen to have more complex and developed brains.

which is what puts us at the top of our food chain.
really, there's more to it than strength or agility or any such.
ANYTHING that gives benefit counts in life, and what counts for the food chain is who you're preying on and who's a natural predator of you.
humans have no real predator.

what does the industry have to do with it?

not ALL cows get that, just try to get pieces of meat from animals that didn't get growth hormones. they're illegal in holland, i think.

food chain is misleading, i suppose. what i mean is, humans shouldn't be so bigheaded.

someone had mentioned that humans ate meat from the dawn of time. those long ago days, we ate the natural meat. i don't know how to say this, but my father always says you can taste the difference between a delicious wild salmon and a domesticated one. with the meat industry, the pure quality of the meat no longer matters- as long as its consumed. was the cow in its natural habitat? hell no. did it eat the food its supposed to? unlikely. was it treated properly? i don't think i have to answer that. and to top it all off, it was given growth hormones. not only is this horrible treatment for the animal, but the effects won't be too great on a human. in the end - its not the same.

[Azgarth]

why shouldn't we be?

there ARE plenty of farms that treat cows properly.
not all farms give growth hormones, hell, like i said, not even legal here.
natural habitat? natural for the cow now, if you go to any remotely decent farm.
pure quality of meat definately matters, even for taste alone.
yes, you can taste the difference, but it's not a case of "this is the right taste", they're just two different tastes.

[krishh.]

why shouldn't we be?

there ARE plenty of farms that treat cows properly.
not all farms give growth hormones, hell, like i said, not even legal here.
natural habitat? natural for the cow now, if you go to any remotely decent farm.
pure quality of meat definately matters, even for taste alone.
yes, you can taste the difference, but it's not a case of "this is the right taste", they're just two different tastes.

because humans are stupid. don't get me started.

i guess i can't argue- it's really just america that's fucking up these cows. i wasn't really talking about the taste, but the fact that the hunted animal was wild before the meat industry. [again, i don't mean to say the meat industry is anything new] from my point of view, if the animal was wild, then it grew up strong, had to work for survival, has greater muscle mass [not fat] and therefore tastes better than a domesticated animal.

[Azgarth]

"humans are stupid"? please get started.

plenty of countries treat livestock bad, and in most of those there's farms where they're treated properly. though sometimes few and far between.

some animals taste better domesticated (cow, definately), some taste better wild (deer, most type of fowl, the like).

[Voly]

humans are stupid.

AAAAAAAAAAAANGST!