More Dreams

talk about... stuff.

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Astica
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Postby Astica » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:24 am

I dislike how you choose to stay wrong.

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Postby Elen Sila » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:42 am

Oh yeah? Demonstrate to me how it is "wrong" to say "gender" to mean "biological gender," and "gender identity" to mean "gender identity." I'd very much like to see how I am "wrong," and you "right."

As far as I'm concerned, it is a valid difference in terminology.
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Postby HartKat » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:10 am

I dont see it. Sorry.:)
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Astica
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Postby Astica » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:02 am

@Anarch: Gender is not natural, but political.

The characteristics of Gender differ slightly between cultures, and are reconstructed through traditions and the media with each generation.

Gender and gender identity are two ways of saying exactly the same thing, and they evolve, unlike a persons sex, which, unless they have surgery, stays the same from birth til death as well as throughout many generations and time.

They evolve with the relevant society's perception of and ideas associated with each gender.

Gender carries stereotypes and expectations which can be represented and upheld regardless of anatomy.

To use the word 'gender' in place of the word 'sex' would be considered wrong because if you were to say that someone was of the female sex, it would mean they had a vagina, whereas if you said they were of female gender, it would mean they conformed to stereotypes such as wearing dresses and make-up and reading celebrity magazines while styling their hair (or whatever it is gender says girls do).

It is misleading because gender is more about behaviour and lifestyle than the physical aspects of the human body, which is why girls can still be considered female by the standards of behaviour and appearance we associate with being a girl, while they have a penis.

@Hartcat: don't see what?

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Postby Astica » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:42 am

Double posting because I'm on topic now.

I had this insane dream last night. It was insane because it felt so real and so natural, even though it was detached from my waking life entirely and my brain seemed to acknowledge this, yet still fall for it.

Basically I was in this suburban area, it wasn't too fancy, my house was actually kind of shabby. I'm pretty sure I was still me, except I was in this house that I understood to be my own, which a small bunch of random dream people I understood to be my friends, and although this suburb could pretty much pass off as being anywhere in the world, I for some reason understood it to be somewhere in America. I'm not even sure where, I just seemed to be vaguely aware of the fact that I was American, talking with a bunch of other Americans.

It was getting kind of dark outside and we were sitting in a little boat on the front lawn, I can't remember what we were talking about completely now, but I remember it being really important, and involving some weird symbol this guy had been wearing in our presence recently. It was one of those occasions where it was gradually growing dark without us really noticing since we were all caught up in our conversation (there were three or four of us, I think), then suddenly I looked around and it was fucking DARK out, like not only had the sun gone down but all the street lights had gone out and none of the surrounding houses/buildings had lights on except for mine. I suddenly became really panicked and one of the people I was with was frantically whispering, telling us to hide.

We got out of the little boat (it was one of those little canoe sized boats with the oars, maybe about 1 by 2 meters) and hid in the long grass, shortly before a van drove past, really slowly, with no lights on either.
It stopped outside my house briefly with the engine still running, and I remember being so terrified I could barely breathe, when I became aware of a sort of warm dampness against my arm, where we were all lying side by side, on our stomachs at the bottom of this grassy bank. I kind of had my head resting against my arms, which were crossed above my chest, flat on the grass, and I looked over to see what the warm dampness was, assuming the grass was wet, when I discovered that one of the guys I was hiding with was bleeding very badly (Strangely, one of the others was lying between me and the bleeding guy, who didn't seem to have any blood on her at all, nor had she seemed to have noticed he was bleeding). I somehow connected this to the people in the van, when the engine stopped and I came under the impression that although the van hadn't opened up at all, the people inside had now left somehow. I was still weary of the van however I knew we had to get our friend some kind of medical attention, so staying low to the ground, the three or four of us (it changed, I think) went back into my house, keeping low to the ground all the way.

(Now for some reason, no matter what the circumstances, I never call anyone for help in dreams. Say I need an ambulance, it always seems more logical to me in dreams to walk to the hospital or to some stranger who can stitch me up instead of simply calling one. There has only been two exceptions I can think of, in one of which I was trapped and terrified and felt absolutely helpless while someone with an axe was tearing my door apart where I called police or someone for help (which didn't come by the way) and the other of which was remarkably similar only more bleak, violent and scary, which I have largely repressed)

So when we got inside we started trying to come up with a plan to move this guy to a really large elevator several blocks from my house up this huge hill. I had no idea where the elevator led, but it seemed vital to the safety of all of us that we get there. We seemed safe in my house, like no-one could come in, and it was all well lit and everything, and our friends bleeding actually decreased when we were inside, yet staying there didn't seem to be an option.

Things get kinda hazy from here, especially since this dream ended about 19 hours ago, but suddenly I didn't recognize myself or the house, and everyone was running out the back door, yelling to me to hurry up. I did so, and we ran like hell for several blocks, until at some point coming to a casual walk, where all traces of blood and danger seemed to have vanished, and we resumed talking about the symbol, which formerly-bleeding guy was wearing as a sort of pendant around his neck (originally the symbol had been drawn on some cloth patch on someone else, I think). It still seemed important to get to the enormous elevator, and we did so. Although it didn't seem very far from the house, it was almost dawn by the time we arrived and met with some kind of operator doorman person, who showed us in and closed the door. By this stage there were definitely only three of us and despite the elevator being completely glass and transparent on the way there, it was very dark and opaque on the inside. There was also a total lack of buttons, however the elevator was in motion to some mysterious place, and no one seemed too worried.

When the doors opened, I was in a setting from these recurring nightmares I've been having for the past couple of months, in which I either get stabbed, stab someone, or see someone else get stabbed and try to help them. The nightmares are usually slightly different, but in the same two houses, with the same people and scenarios, and somehow when I got out of that elevator I recognized the setting and knew that something bad was going to happen, then it occurred to me that my friend hadn't really been injured before, but he was just showing signs that he was going to be injured, which was why I had had to help him get here, so he could actually be stabbed. I'll stop here, since this is getting quite long, my memory is getting fuzzy and I think I started to wake up somewhere a bit past here.

I'm not sure how this seems out of context of seeing it like I do, but this dream just freaked me out because I felt like I was definitely myself (whatever that means) even though it quite clearly wasn't me, and I rarely feel afraid and vulnerable like that in dreams. It felt great at the same time though, til that moment of dread where I found myself in that recurring dream location again. I've actually always had some kind of re-occurring dream location which pops up every so often and lasts anywhere from a month to a year. All sorts of things happen there, and they're definitely different dreams, but I could describe every inch of these places long after I forget what happened there, and later in life, it almost feels like I'm remembering them from the real world. But I don't like this one.

I'm going to go and pass out now.

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Postby dickwad » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:19 pm

i had a dream that i was back in primary school.

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Astica
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Postby Astica » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:24 pm

Was it a lot of fun?

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Postby dickwad » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:31 pm

it felt more like secondary than primary, but it was set in my primary school. i seemed to get into a lot of fights. fighting in dreams is retarded, it never works properly. really slow and sluggish.

i did enjoy it though. all i want is to go back to that time.

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Postby Elen Sila » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:04 pm

Astica wrote:To use the word 'gender' in place of the word 'sex' would be considered wrong because if you were to say that someone was of the female sex, it would mean they had a vagina, whereas if you said they were of female gender, it would mean they conformed to stereotypes such as wearing dresses and make-up and reading celebrity magazines while styling their hair (or whatever it is gender says girls do).

It is misleading because gender is more about behaviour and lifestyle than the physical aspects of the human body, which is why girls can still be considered female by the standards of behaviour and appearance we associate with being a girl, while they have a penis.


You're failing to see the point. I'm not questioning the necessity of using two different terms for the two different concepts. I do use two different terms: "biological gender" and "gender identity."

What I'm questioning is why you seem to have trouble with the idea that the english language and its vocabulary may vary from place to place. What you call "football" I call "soccer."
DW wrote:anarch is more than slightly mental, he's completely fucking bonkers

Voly wrote:Do you reproduce by budding? Because if so, I'm so selling you to science.




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Postby HartKat » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:15 am

I had a dream where I was back in this private rich kid school.



It was not fun.
WAIT!, were working with some really unstable herbs!

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Postby Astica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:32 am

Anarch wrote:
Astica wrote:To use the word 'gender' in place of the word 'sex' would be considered wrong because if you were to say that someone was of the female sex, it would mean they had a vagina, whereas if you said they were of female gender, it would mean they conformed to stereotypes such as wearing dresses and make-up and reading celebrity magazines while styling their hair (or whatever it is gender says girls do).

It is misleading because gender is more about behaviour and lifestyle than the physical aspects of the human body, which is why girls can still be considered female by the standards of behaviour and appearance we associate with being a girl, while they have a penis.


You're failing to see the point. I'm not questioning the necessity of using two different terms for the two different concepts. I do use two different terms: "biological gender" and "gender identity."

What I'm questioning is why you seem to have trouble with the idea that the english language and its vocabulary may vary from place to place. What you call "football" I call "soccer."

No I see your point, I just don't see why you split one word into two definitions instead of using two separate words. But if it works where you live I guess it works. It would be dreadfully confusing around here though.

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Postby Elen Sila » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:09 am

Honestly, usually you just say "gender" for both unless you're having a conversation that specifically requires the differentiation of the two.
DW wrote:anarch is more than slightly mental, he's completely fucking bonkers

Voly wrote:Do you reproduce by budding? Because if so, I'm so selling you to science.




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Postby Astica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:14 am

Anarch wrote:Honestly, usually you just say "gender" for both unless you're having a conversation that specifically requires the differentiation of the two.

YOU do. No one I know ever does.

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Postby Elen Sila » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:16 am

It was the impersonal "you," not the directive "you."
DW wrote:anarch is more than slightly mental, he's completely fucking bonkers

Voly wrote:Do you reproduce by budding? Because if so, I'm so selling you to science.




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Postby Astica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:41 am

I know, but I directed it to say that you personally are the only person I've ever known who does that.

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Postby ƒrosty » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:13 am

ITT: Meaningless nonsense

Some dreams would be cool.

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Postby evilredqueen » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:05 pm

Last night I dreamed I had to overcome all these obstacles and they were all from a vidoe game I had played... fucking strange.

Frosty all living beings dream. You just don't remember.

My LLF dreams. I have watched him.
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Astica
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Postby Astica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:27 pm

I've been having a lot of really awful dreams this week that I haven't shared with you guys (except one with Anarch, and description didn't really do it justice). It sort of made me afraid of dreaming, until last night when I had a spectacularly weird but awesome dream. :D About an hour of self therapy and dream interpretation last night seems to have allowed my subconscious to move on to nice things, lets hope it stays.

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Postby Guitar_clock » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:57 pm

Same here. Last night I dreamt that my mouse got under the burner of an electric stove and when I got him out from under it he had no hair and was soft and warm

like a perogie mmm

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Postby Sunshine » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:27 pm

D : That's so sad!
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Postby Rusty Nails » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:30 pm

....I had one where I killed my boyfriends mothers husband...yeah she didn't like me after that. :(
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Postby evilredqueen » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:52 pm

I dreamed I was back in school last night... fucking weird. Chantix induced
Zyn wrote:Because God knows ERQ has always been a font of sensible and well-supported opinions.

Voly wrote:ASSASSINATE ALL THEM GOT-DAMN NIGGER SYMPATHIZERS


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Postby dot. » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:54 pm

I'm so annoyed at all of you. I haven't remembered a dream in several weeks. I remember that I remembered one at about 2 in the morning, but by the time 7am rolled around, it was gone.

I'd -love- to know what I dream about.
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Postby Alu » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:51 am

I only remember my dreams when I get to sleep in after a period of very short sleep (so, basically, weekends).

Anyway, last one I remember was an extraordinarily trippy dream in which I either died or found the secret to the universe... gave up trying to interpret that one. I wrote it down as soon as I woke up and it covered two and a half pages :\
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Postby Voly » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:32 am

The one I posted is the first one I recall having remembered since 2008, Kristina.
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