This almost affirms what I've thought for years.

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This almost affirms what I've thought for years.

Postby Spaced Ape » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:44 pm

"Rich, Black, and Flunking"

The Article wrote:The professor and his research assistant moved to Shaker Heights for nine months in mid-1997. They reviewed data and test scores. The team observed 110 different classes, from kindergarten all the way through high school. They conducted exhaustive interviews with school personnel, black parents, and students. Their project yielded an unexpected conclusion: It wasn't socioeconomics, school funding, or racism, that accounted for the students' poor academic performance; it was their own attitudes, and those of their parents.


The culture of victimization can sometimes be stronger than the so-called aggressors, especially when the aggressors don't even exist.
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Postby HeRetiK » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:09 pm

People tend to search somewhere else for their failure first. And as with xenophobia, self-victimization is always an easy excuse. Because it's someone elses fault, preferably not an individual but a group of people that make generalization easier. I think in many cases the aggressors still exist though. But you know, nobody wants to be the bad guys, it's always the others.

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Postby Spaced Ape » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:29 pm

Right. My only point with the aggressors existence is that if one does not exist, not only can one be created but the aggression itself can be manufactured to whatever level the creator thinks is appropriate. Sometimes this happens for a distinct purpose (i.e. the Jews in Germany during the rise of the Nazis) or completely accidental (i.e. the black community in the article).

It also helps show the links and differences between a single human mind and that of a culture of minds placed within a memetic structure.

GOD I LOVE MEMETICS!
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Postby HeRetiK » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:04 pm

Reminds me, I still have to read the selfish gene. Damn.

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Postby Spaced Ape » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:30 pm

Well the Selfish Gene is less about memetics and more about looking at evolution through the gene's point of view.

Either way it is one HELL of an eye-opening book. The sequel as well.
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Postby Zyn » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:33 pm

The human psyche is well adapted to blaming the group, as then they don't hafta point out any specific trouble they've been caused.
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Postby Spaced Ape » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:41 pm

It's more complicated than that.
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Postby Voly » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:52 pm

Give him credit for at least being in the ballpark.
Astica wrote:That's probably the wankiest thing I've heard all day.

Elen wrote:If they were just bickering about politics, instead of indulging ERQ's passive-aggressive, self-aggrandizing fuckassery, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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Postby Spaced Ape » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:04 am

True, but I might as well start referring to him as Layman.
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Postby Voly » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:05 am

Or inform him. He's obviously not going anywhere, and I'm sure he'd like to learn something. I mean, half the reason I come here is because I know so much more than before.

Hell, I was an anticulture crybaby emo kid when I first joined.
Astica wrote:That's probably the wankiest thing I've heard all day.

Elen wrote:If they were just bickering about politics, instead of indulging ERQ's passive-aggressive, self-aggrandizing fuckassery, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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Postby Sol » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:31 am

I wonder how I'm gonna turn out in the end?

I'm not sure what I am now, but later on I'll probably think back and thank you guys for the "progress" you have given me. I learn things every day here! haha
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Postby Voly » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:19 am

You're really kinda saying things I kept to myself back in the day when I started here. Like... constantly. Stop being me from the past.
Astica wrote:That's probably the wankiest thing I've heard all day.

Elen wrote:If they were just bickering about politics, instead of indulging ERQ's passive-aggressive, self-aggrandizing fuckassery, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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Postby Astica » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:27 am

I've thought a similar thing for years, also. Here in NZ, since the settlers were apparently so mean to the indigenous people, Maori, our government has started negotiating giving them all this shit as repayment. For example, they want beaches that only Maori people can visit, and higher benefits than European New Zealanders.

Their projects get more funding, their families get more money, and yet they still whine that they're hard done by and drop out of school and claim things are too hard for them. Its like this life of being uneducated and unemployed is what they feel is expected of them, so they live up to it.

One of the Maori party politicians recently suggested that to encourage Maori to go to university, they should get open entry. He genuinely thought it would be acceptable that white people should study in high school and earn their qualifications to study tertiary while Maori should just get to not bother with high school and get in anyway.


[/angry stereotyping]

But yes, I think some people of various black backgrounds are lazy because its easy to blame others and its somehow cool to live up to old racial stereotypes.

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Postby Sol » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:50 am

Voly wrote:You're really kinda saying things I kept to myself back in the day when I started here. Like... constantly. Stop being me from the past.


I promise you, I'm not trying. I can't see how I'm acting like you when you first started simply since I wasn't here at that point. So, I don't see what's freaky about it.
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Postby Voly » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:54 am

I didn't mean to insinuate you were trying, or that it was a bad thing. Others might, but I'm not.
Astica wrote:That's probably the wankiest thing I've heard all day.

Elen wrote:If they were just bickering about politics, instead of indulging ERQ's passive-aggressive, self-aggrandizing fuckassery, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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Postby Sol » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:57 am

Ok. haha
It's wierd that a "younger" version of someone else is getting along with them at least decently. :)
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Postby Sol » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:00 am

Yes Shane... :P

Edit: This was supposed to go after Voly's next response.
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Postby Voly » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:01 am

No stranger than siblings getting along. Now cut the chit-chat. :)
Astica wrote:That's probably the wankiest thing I've heard all day.

Elen wrote:If they were just bickering about politics, instead of indulging ERQ's passive-aggressive, self-aggrandizing fuckassery, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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Postby Elen Sila » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:53 am

Nobody will ever listen to Ogbu, so we can't expect anything good or productive to come of this.
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Postby Spaced Ape » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:53 am

That's not necessarily true. It's only that nobody will listen to him in the current environment. His study can always be used in future reference to other studies.
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Postby Zyn » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:25 pm

Eschatos wrote:True, but I might as well start referring to him as Layman.


Yea, I'm usedta putting thing's in simple terms. I can usually infer the deeper meaning from the subject we're talking about and am either too lazy or too caught in the habit to actually type out everything. If I honestly have no idea what you're talking about, I just won't be in that topic.
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Postby Spaced Ape » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:21 am

If you have no idea, then you should probably ask questions. I've never blown off anyone who has asked me a sincere question. Unless the answer is as easy as looking through wikipedia.
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Postby Guitar_clock » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:40 am

Do you guys mean you've learned a lot here; here as in Earth¿ Or here as in MinDistortion.tv¿

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Postby Spaced Ape » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:43 am

Both?
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Postby Voly » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:08 am

He's right. ^
Astica wrote:That's probably the wankiest thing I've heard all day.

Elen wrote:If they were just bickering about politics, instead of indulging ERQ's passive-aggressive, self-aggrandizing fuckassery, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.


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